The gnashing of teeth from the VPC and the "for the children" yahoos was heart rendering. I think I'm gonna cry.
Did you know that 100,000 people are shot and/or killed by handguns every year? IT'S TRUE! I heard it from a US Representative today. The same one, (Conley - MI, D), said that "89 people were killed in TX at a birthday party." Of course he could have meant "8 or 9" but not even that is true. Off to the senate to die it goes...
HR 822 is now a very bad deal since the house amended it to give the Feds power over the states' rights to issue and control these permits. It'll be even worse after the Communists in the Senate get done with it.
So how do you propose that Heller be applied across the nation? The 2A is a FEDERAL implementation of a right. Do you propose a Constitutional Convention to repeal it, so that the 57 states can each implement their own interpretation?
Congress can "taketh away" with or without HR822. This doesn't "enable" them to do anything they couldn't already do if they felt like they could get away with it. The key is maintaining a society in which they know they can't.
And it doesn't "take away a state's ability to issue permits", it just says if you issue a permit to your own citizens you have to respect the permits of other state's citizens as all are citizens of the United States and have the same Constitutional Rights and P&I's.
States are free to not issue permits, or to restrict where weapons may be carried, as such rules still apply to reciprocal carriers.
As much as I think that it would be great to have reciprocal carry in all states if properly permitted in your state, I think that before HR 822 is over and passed, we won't recognize that it "just made it legal to carry in all states". It didn't make it out of the House until it was amended and those originally putting the bill forward promised that if it was amended, they would "pull" the bill. What do you think "Dirty" Harry will let happen in the Senate? I personally believe that the gun grabbers think that this will be a golden opportunity to stick it to us. How can we be so naive?
don't break out the champagne just yet,go back a few years and look at some of the "good bills" we were told we should want,and the amendments where we got screwed in the "house/senate conference committee" deal making. "you gotta give to get..." and somehow we always seem to end up with the short and nasty end of the stick.
Amendments can be voted on separately or as a whole. But all that is past with regard to the House. If I recall from the other day they were all defeated. Here is the final wording of the bill from the House. Click on version 2.
Matter of fact if you click on the same link I provided just prior, look for All Congressional Actions with Amendments and you will see the list of Amendments and the votes. Only the Reichert one passed which is a meaningless one anyway.
This amounts to nothing more than a big wet kiss from the NRA to a bunch of fair weather friend Dems. It gives them a big bragging point in upcoming re-election campaigns while knowing full well that the bill is going nowhere.
This bill will go the same as the Thune Amendment did. The Dem leadership will carefully count their votes and give the OK to their members in tight races to make a pro-gun vote. The bill will fail cloture by one vote in the Senate.
Just remembered that it took something like 14 YEARS to get the LEO Safety Act passed. No law is going to be easy. But it sure is worth the try ! The NRA is doing the job of dealing with the slime on the hill. I say bless them !
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SAFETY ACT OF 2004 18 U.S. Code § 926B
My principles don't go out the window just because I favor a particular thing. Sorry, but this is an abrogation of state's' rights. If you favor this, you'd better not complain about gay marriages in one state having to be recognized in all states.
H.R. 822 would require the Comptroller General of the U.S. to conduct an audit of the laws and regulations of each state that authorizes the issuance of a valid permit or license to permit a nonresident to possess or carry a concealed firearm.
whatever happened to the guys who had gotten the transcripts and video coverage of the House or Senate floor from 1986 of how machine guns/fully automatics got "banned"?
States rights were abrogated with the 14th Amendment. The south lost, sorry.
No more slavery.
This is not a 14th amendment matter, by the way.
It isn't a Commerce clause matter, either.
Making states respect other states' licenses is an article 4 matter, and has been settled for quite some time. States are required to respect other state's driver's licenses and marriage certificates as well.
No reason to argue the 4th, vs 14th for the 2nd. I've come to the conclusion that the Constitution is null and void. This country has strayed so far for so long from the framework that it is just meaningless to reference it. So be it.
Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Commie, whatever. At this point it is the law of the jungle that applies. Those that can, will. Those that can't, well, they will just have to be satisfied that no one is warming up the ovens just yet. I gave up after the demise of the effort to show that Hussein meets or doesn't meet the Constitutional bar to hold the office. Not a single person in the limelight today even dares to mention it now. Obamacare telling every citizen what to do. The Feds claiming they can simply lie to its citizens. Executive orders. Spying, killing, wars, debt, corruption, theft, intimidation and revenge, confiscation of property to give to others, mass murder every day of the unborn, legalized perversion. The list of behavior and acts that make me puke by the Federal government, AND the state and local governments, is just too long to list. We are a totalitarian society. End of story.
Sadly, IMHO, this country is just a Potemkin Village at best of what the founders wanted, fought for, and died for. Like I said, I have just given up. I'm on the downslide of life. It will have to be others that give a crap.
"States are required to respect other state's driver's licenses and marriage certificates as well."
That was exactly my point.
And the erosion of federalism has not made me surrender my principles, which are based on the letter and spirit of the Constitution. It's non-negotiable.
The gnashing of teeth from the VPC and the "for the children" yahoos was heart rendering. I think I'm gonna cry.
ReplyDeleteDid you know that 100,000 people are shot and/or killed by handguns every year? IT'S TRUE!
I heard it from a US Representative today. The same one, (Conley - MI, D), said that "89 people were killed in TX at a birthday party."
Of course he could have meant "8 or 9" but not even that is true.
Off to the senate to die it goes...
Everyone is all about keeping the feds out of things until it's their sacred cow vying for the prize, eh?
ReplyDeleteI think we'd be better served by continuing to push at a state level for gun rights. Nothing good ever came from from federal involvement.
HR 822 is now a very bad deal since the house amended it to give the Feds power over the states' rights to issue and control these permits. It'll be even worse after the Communists in the Senate get done with it.
ReplyDeleteNo. It's a bad idea. What the congress can giveth, the congress can taketh away.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I find it ironic that gun owners, who tend to be conservative and champion "states rights" would get behind this.
To Anon 5:18
ReplyDeleteSo how do you propose that Heller be applied across the nation? The 2A is a FEDERAL implementation of a right. Do you propose a Constitutional Convention to repeal it, so that the 57 states can each implement their own interpretation?
Congress can "taketh away" with or without HR822. This doesn't "enable" them to do anything they couldn't already do if they felt like they could get away with it. The key is maintaining a society in which they know they can't.
ReplyDeleteAnd it doesn't "take away a state's ability to issue permits", it just says if you issue a permit to your own citizens you have to respect the permits of other state's citizens as all are citizens of the United States and have the same Constitutional Rights and P&I's.
States are free to not issue permits, or to restrict where weapons may be carried, as such rules still apply to reciprocal carriers.
As much as I think that it would be great to have reciprocal carry in all states if properly permitted in your state, I think that before HR 822 is over and passed, we won't recognize that it "just made it legal to carry in all states". It didn't make it out of the House until it was amended and those originally putting the bill forward promised that if it was amended, they would "pull" the bill. What do you think "Dirty" Harry will let happen in the Senate? I personally believe that the gun grabbers think that this will be a golden opportunity to stick it to us. How can we be so naive?
ReplyDeleteFirst let's read up on how a bill becomes a law :) Kinda like Schoolhouse Rock with the great Jack Sheldon !
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_law.html
The Senate can't "just makes changes" and that's it. It goes right back to the house in conference then a re-vote.
don't break out the champagne just yet,go back a few years and look at some of the "good bills" we were told we should want,and the amendments where we got screwed in the "house/senate conference committee" deal making. "you gotta give to get..." and somehow we always seem to end up with the short and nasty end of the stick.
ReplyDeleteSo, I'm seeing a lot of wacky amendments to this bill. http://www.gop.gov/bill/112/1/hr822
ReplyDeleteDo the amendments have to be individually voted upon, or do they automatically go into effect?
Amendments can be voted on separately or as a whole. But all that is past with regard to the House. If I recall from the other day they were all defeated. Here is the final wording of the bill from the House. Click on version 2.
ReplyDeletehttp://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.822:
Matter of fact if you click on the same link I provided just prior, look for All Congressional Actions with Amendments and you will see the list of Amendments and the votes. Only the Reichert one passed which is a meaningless one anyway.
ReplyDeleteThis amounts to nothing more than a big wet kiss from the NRA to a bunch of fair weather friend Dems. It gives them a big bragging point in upcoming re-election campaigns while knowing full well that the bill is going nowhere.
ReplyDeleteThis bill will go the same as the Thune Amendment did. The Dem leadership will carefully count their votes and give the OK to their members in tight races to make a pro-gun vote. The bill will fail cloture by one vote in the Senate.
Just remembered that it took something like 14 YEARS to get the LEO Safety Act passed. No law is going to be easy. But it sure is worth the try ! The NRA is doing the job of dealing with the slime on the hill. I say bless them !
ReplyDeleteLAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SAFETY ACT OF 2004
18 U.S. Code § 926B
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/05/nationwide_conc.php
My principles don't go out the window just because I favor a particular thing. Sorry, but this is an abrogation of state's' rights. If you favor this, you'd better not complain about gay marriages in one state having to be recognized in all states.
ReplyDeleteH.R. 822 would require the Comptroller General of the U.S. to conduct an audit of the laws and regulations of each state that authorizes the issuance of a valid permit or license to permit a nonresident to possess or carry a concealed firearm.
ReplyDeletewhatever happened to the guys who had gotten the transcripts and video coverage of the House or Senate floor from 1986 of how machine guns/fully automatics got "banned"?
ReplyDeleteDave S:
ReplyDeleteStates rights were abrogated with the 14th Amendment. The south lost, sorry.
No more slavery.
This is not a 14th amendment matter, by the way.
It isn't a Commerce clause matter, either.
Making states respect other states' licenses is an article 4 matter, and has been settled for quite some time. States are required to respect other state's driver's licenses and marriage certificates as well.
No reason to argue the 4th, vs 14th for the 2nd. I've come to the conclusion that the Constitution is null and void. This country has strayed so far for so long from the framework that it is just meaningless to reference it. So be it.
ReplyDeleteRepublican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Commie, whatever. At this point it is the law of the jungle that applies. Those that can, will. Those that can't, well, they will just have to be satisfied that no one is warming up the ovens just yet. I gave up after the demise of the effort to show that Hussein meets or doesn't meet the Constitutional bar to hold the office. Not a single person in the limelight today even dares to mention it now. Obamacare telling every citizen what to do. The Feds claiming they can simply lie to its citizens. Executive orders. Spying, killing, wars, debt, corruption, theft, intimidation and revenge, confiscation of property to give to others, mass murder every day of the unborn, legalized perversion. The list of behavior and acts that make me puke by the Federal government, AND the state and local governments, is just too long to list. We are a totalitarian society. End of story.
Sadly, IMHO, this country is just a Potemkin Village at best of what the founders wanted, fought for, and died for. Like I said, I have just given up. I'm on the downslide of life. It will have to be others that give a crap.
Oh and have a Happy Thanksgiving !
"States are required to respect other state's driver's licenses and marriage certificates as well."
ReplyDeleteThat was exactly my point.
And the erosion of federalism has not made me surrender my principles, which are based on the letter and spirit of the Constitution. It's non-negotiable.
HR 822 would allow citizens to carry across state lines, but at what privacy cost since the federal government controls that?
ReplyDeleteGreat and awesome, you're simply the best.
ReplyDelete