In either case I'd go with a revolver (hey, it's not a semi auto with one of those boxy springy things that so scare liberals) as the handgun...actually, ideally, 2 revolvers — a belt gun and a smaller gun that will function as a pocket pistol. If I go with the .223 BLR, I might look at a .357 revolver — once again, ammunition availability and versatility. On the Alaskan, I'd go for compatibility and opt for a .44 Magnum revolver. There are a couple of option, depending on your level of paranoia and your willingness to schlepp bags. If weight of the overall package is the number one consideration, I'd look at the Alaskan, a scandium-framed 329 S&W revolver and a Charter Bulldog as the pocket pistol. The .44 is a thumper, but without the range of the .223 (and, yes, there is the issue of 2 calibers, Special and Magnum). If weight was less of an issue, I'd go with the 4-inch Redhawk, which will probably be working years after the glaciers come south.
If I go with the .223 BLR, I'm going to suggest a .357 revolver. For weight, look at the lightweight S&Ws. For stone-like durability, the Ruger GP-100. I think the Ruger LCR is one of the best pocket pistols ever made, but there are plenty of other small frame S&Ws, Tauruses, Charters and what-have-you out there. In this case I'd go with a .357 version for ammo compatibility.
Just some work-in-process thoughts!
I know it's an old-school piece, but do you notice the old Ruger Security-Six is just as rugged as the GP-100 but lighter, and gunsmiths don't see much of 'em execpt for customizing. On a side note, _ANY_ intel on what Baretta in Md. or Remington in NY are gonna do? Keep hearing rumors Baretta's pulling out of Md.,and I'd like to see O'Malley take a hit in the tax revenues for his Ass-Hattery.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your work, Micheal.
Any thoughts on a HORUS reticle in a leopold or a nightforce??? -Andrew west-
ReplyDeleteIn a non-permissive environment I would start with one of Savages new bolt actions that takes AR mags and a S&W model 625would. 45acp with moonclips. I won't be hunting, but defending. If it was all out chaos I would grab an AR as soon as possible. If in the country a Remington 700 .308 and. 44 revolver. Fortunetly I live in AR/AK/Glock country.
ReplyDeleteWe've talked about this before. I like both of your choices, but would lean to the common caliber .44 solution. I was looking at the Deerfield, but a breakdown is better.
ReplyDeleteMy current version of this is a M1 Carbine with Choate (Alluded to last week), paired with an Automag III. Currently looking for a double action revolver in .30 carbine instead of the exotic Automag.
I figure I'll have ammo with me, and won't need to find any more. The spat of new laws would seem to change my target, as magazines were the last thing I figured would be outlawed outright. I assumed what I had would be (safely) grandfathered in. Sounds like we need to devolve our gun selections back to the 1800s.
I assume a ban on smokeless powder is next as 'only criminals would want to hide the location they were shooting from'.
Good choice in the BLR. My wife has a few, but none are takedowns. Her older built 243 weighs quite a bit more than the .270 lightweight, but both are rugged and accurate... The mags for the 243/308 used to be about 40 dollars at Cabelas, but that was a few years back.
ReplyDeleteAny word on the Colorado cowboy shoot in July? Is it still going?
DM
Rossi lever-gun in .38/.357 with tthe Ruger lcr in .38 and a 101 in .38/.357. Or the '94 in .44 with a S&W 696 in .44 Special AND an 18.9 oz S&W 296 in .44 Special. Plus an assortment of .22s.
ReplyDeleteOld Force
Butch,
ReplyDeleteIf you're using moonclips, bore that 625 cylinder for .460 Rowland. .45 ACP or Auto Rim or Super for people and smaller critters, Rowland for bear.
A 5 shot Charter or new qc Taurus Tracker in the same concept could even work for concealed carry.
But I'm a broken record on this idea.
Could you operate the BLR lever if it accepted AR magazines? That new Mossberg MVP is the same idea but with a bolt gun. I do like the BLR using a magazine as I had a hard time figuring out how pointed bullets would work in a lever gun. I looked at an 1895 or something like it, but couldn't find it in a modern loading I liked.
ReplyDeleteIn .44Mag, have you tried the Taurus Tracker 5-shot revolvers? That may bridge the gap for your handguns without having to resort to a Special-only option.
ReplyDeleteMichael,
ReplyDeleteHave you considered a Win. 94 Trapper in .30-30? It's shorter than the BLR, provides more long-range power than a .44 Mag 92 clone, and the ammo is everywhere even in tough times like today. Remove one screw and the stock comes free for very short travel length that's an important consideration for this use. The carbine with a butt cuff and a few Tuff Quick Strips loaded with Hornady FTX loads should serve you well.
My "already have" choices are: Marlin 1894CL and a 5 1/2" Ruger Redhawk; both in .44 Magnum. The carbine length Marlin slides into the ski sleeve on my bug-out bag and is accessible with an over-the-shoulder reach. I carry my 870 with it's rifle-sighted 18" "smoothie" barrel in my hands. The shotgun gives you slug, buckshot and bird shot versatility. The 870 can also go into the other pack sleeve, keeping both hands free.
ReplyDeleteThe 5 1/2" Redhawk is a good compromise in shootability. I also have a 7 1/2"-er to switch off with. Both carry well either strong-side-hip, or cross-draw; in Bianchi 5BHL holsters. The holsters don't interfere with the hip belt on the pack either, as I've set the pack up to ride high on my back, for hiking efficiency.
Your mileage may vary.
Life Member
Life Member, that is exactly what I did. I have the same same Marlin in .44 magnum with a scout mounted red dot, and a 5" magnaported Redhawk.I have been an advocate for decades of the lever action as a "bottomles magazine" defense rifle. My wife and I like to travel a few times a year and this combo works great. A S#W 638 38 +P in a pocket holster rond out the group.
ReplyDeleteI like the takedown idea.. I have been shooting a Ruger 10/22 takedown, and my first concern was if they hold their accuracy with repeated assembly and disassembly.. the answer for the 10/22 is yes.. it seems to hold zero very well (there is an adjustment to snug up the coupling, but that adjustment was only an initial concern). My question is do these larger calibers you are considering hold zero as takedowns?
ReplyDeleteI have the Rossi R92 16" stainless .38/.357 in my truck, and the Ruger LCR .357 in my pocket. The Rossi carries 8+1 of .357 or 9+1 with .38's. A 9 round butt-cuff on the rifle and two 5 round tuff strips in my pocket completes the loadout.
ReplyDeleteI chose this combo in anticipation of semi's becoming politically incorrect even where not banned outright.
Michael, thanks for taking a stand.
Scott B.
"The 4-round magazines are dreadfully expensive ($125 apiece)"
ReplyDeleteTime to start building a list of magazines that defcad.org can work on. The 3D printer world opens up a whole lot of options. You could easily imagine a 10 round mag for the BLR. And the say a club or forum could amortize the price of setup across 100 or 500 made and distributed.
Just as a follow up to Overload mention of blackpowder things. MB would love to hear ya talk on the pretty rich selection these days of blackpowder firearms for defense/survival/fun.
Funny story...I was in New York City, the Belly of the Beast, a few years ago at a meeting when, afterwards, one of the meeting participants asked me to step into the men's room. Well, of course my first thought was, "I didn't know he was in Congress!" But he assured me there would be nothing untoward, so we stepped into the men's room, he locked the door behind us and he pulls out not Mr. Weasel but a HUGE short-barrelled cap-and-ball revolver, all capped and ready to rock.
ReplyDelete"Perfectly legal in New York City," he said. Well...okay. That's a question I'd want my lawyer to spend some time researching! But the way things are going in the Northeast, it may come to that.
mb
Brownells is listing BLR .308 magazines for less than $125.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/magazine-prod1924.aspx
RSR
W94's are also now available (again) as takedown versions. Not cheap :-(
ReplyDeleteRSR
OK...dumb newbie question...Non-Permisive Environment??
ReplyDeleteI've thought of a Keltec sub 2000 with it folded in a laptop bag it would go unnoticed in a urban enviroment till needed or possibly an AK underfolder a little bigger but easier to find, I'm just not sure you'll need the range of a 223
ReplyDeleteIn an urban area it isn't just range, it's defeating light cover/concealment.
ReplyDelete@ELIMN8U: Non-Permissive Environment, unless I'm way off base here, means an environment where "scary" guns are outlawed. No (or limited) semi-auto rifle options, limited semi-auto handgun options, magazine restrictions, etc. Think "trying to carry in NYC, or post-ban CT".
ReplyDeleteLever- and bolt-action rifles are still legal, as are revolvers, so those are good choices for this mental exercise.
Archer...Thanks for the enlightenment :)
ReplyDeleteOld dog trying to learn some new tricks here to some degree.
ELIMN8U: No problem!
ReplyDeleteFor an extra opinion, here's another analysis of why lever-action "hunting-caliber" rifles actually have some advantages over semi-auto "military caliber" ones. It's a good read (and it convinced me to put a good lever-action on my short-list of guns-to-get).
Great article, Archer! I know a lot of urban rifle instructors who have been utterly shocked at how well lever guns ran in classes. The trick ARs go down...the ancient Winchester '94s are forever.
ReplyDeleteI have a .44 Marlin that is the Official House Gun (although I'm getting ready to send it to Steve Young @ Steve's Gunz for a bit of work). I always keep a lever gun out because both my Sweetie and I are cowboy action shooters, which means we put thousands and thousands of rounds through lever guns in an average year.
The little .357 Marlin mentioned in Archer's link is a great gun. I picked one up for a song years ago and I wouldn't trde it for anything. I also have a pre '64 Winchester 94 in 30-30 (you saw it in Joe Mantegna's hands when we did the 94 for GUN STORIES) that is everything a lever gun should be. If it was my ONLY rifle I think I could get by...
mb
@Archer
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, as a big fan of the old western tv shows/movies I've always loved the looks/action of a lever action rifle and have one on my gun-bucketlist. Thanks for the link!
I'll concur with the choice of a good lever rifle, especially in hunting calibers. I tend to haul my BLR take-down pretty much everywhere because it's so handy (it rides in an old padded L.L. Bean breakdown shotgun case that has a shoulder strap).
ReplyDeleteThe two things I'd really like, and would be more then willing to pay a reasonable sum for are 10 round magazines for the BLR (Ruger has them for the Gunsite Scout rifle, in both poly and steel, so how hard can it be?) and a folding stock for my Marlin 1894. Something along the lines of the hinged, pinned-lock side folder some AKs come with, and since one would have to fold the stock out to use the rifle, it it blocked access to the trigger and/or lever it wouldn't matter. A 16 inch barrel and a folding stock would make a pretty compact lever gun package.
Gee, a folding stock lever gun. Interesting approach. Maybe we can get Choate or Magpul interested.
ReplyDeleteI thought I was being bold installing polymer stocks on a takedown W94 :-)
RSR
RSR,
ReplyDeleteCheck out Mossberg's "tactical" lever-guns. It shows that "simplicity is a reflection of genius".
Life Member