I'M GETTING MIXED MESSAGES FROM LARRY CROW ON THIS POST, SO I'VE MODIFIED THIS POST SLIGHTLY AS OF FRIDAY...
This appears to be true — BATF has launched and initiative aimed custom gunsmithing in America.
The weapon they're using is a really fine point...what is the definition of "manufacturing a firearm"? That phrase is NOT defined in any legislation and, since it's not a legally defined term, it's open to interpretation. Since the late 1990s, when the then ATF hit gunsmith Jim Clark Senior for "manufacturing a firearm" (which cost Jim more than $100,000 but alledgedly clarified the question) was "making or providing the controlled, or serial-numbered, part."
The new BATF definition of "manufacturing a firearm" is "making any substantive changes to a firearm."
CORRECTION OF YESTERDAY'S POST: Using the new definition, the BATF hit Competitive Edge Gunworks — who has been featured on SHOOTING GALLERY and COWBOYS — and threatened chief gunsmith Larry Crow with SIX potential felony counts (including one for "changing the hammer and barrel of a Ruger and installing an octagonal barrel") unless applied for a manufacturing license and pay the appropriate tax and penalties for the guns he was charged with manufacturing.
CORRECTION ON YESTERDAY'S POST: Crow says that he has reached an agreement with BATF, but that revenue agents stated they have the right to go back through a gunsmiths' paperwork and levy the 11% excise tax and penalties on every gun the gunsmith has ever produced. There is no statue of limitations on tax issues. For some of the top gunsmiths, we would be literally talking hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Both NRA and NSSF lawyers are on it now, with Second Amendment Foundation close behind. Master gunsmith Hamilton Bowen says if this isn't a tempest in a teapot, it puts 3/4 of the Pistolsmith Guild, including him, out of business.
ironically, manufacturing licenses are not particularly expensive, but the excise tax adds another layer of paperwork.
Thursday, March 30, 2006
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29 comments:
It seems to me, and I admit I don't always think of things the same way as others, that the "firearm" has been defined as the frame. Thus, unless there were "substantial" changes to the frame, there would be no "manufacturing". Even then, if you were not fabricating the frame from base metal, how would you be manufacturing the frame? My simplistic view is that the manufacturer is the one assigning the serial number, and I don't know of any gunsmith's doing other than recording the existing serial number in their records.
This should also apply to various law enforcement armorers as well, shouldn't it, since they replace barrels and other parts. Of course, being governmental agencies, they are exempt from the tax.
This is another example of the BATF re-interpreting a federal regulation and adding their own spin. You might remember that basically the same thing occurred a few years back when they re-defined muzzleloaders as firearms. Hang tight, and contact your congressman.
The Power to tax is the Power to destroyI this odd the BATF is doing this now. Someone needs to bring them under control.
If we needed any more evidence (as if!) that the BATF is totally out of control, this is it. Their choice to do that at a time when Congress is already investigating them for abuses is openly thumbing their nose at Congress, and I hope Congress gets the message (as they did with the TSA and the FFDO program) and steps on them as hard they've needed to be stepped on for at least the last twenty years.
Outrageous! If you start with a firearm, and end with a firearm, then nothing is created or destroyed. You are not making anything, just modifying or repairing it. The BATFE has become an oppressive regime. It is unconstitutional and should be defunded and liquidated, and at the same time, the unconstitutional laws that have been created since the early 1930s should be repealed.
Depending on the full accuracy of this posting, the biggest mistake that was made on the gunsmith's part was signing a piece of paper admitting "GUILT". By doing that he then opened the flood gate for all the additional charges and fines levied against him. I am sure at the time he was given all sorts of threats as to what the BATF would do to him if he did not sign. As tough as it is to face those threats, in my honest opinion any further comments that the gunsmith should have made at that is "I would like my attorney present." At least then he could have poceeded under legal advisement. This is just my opinion and I am not fully read on the laws governing this, but this is certainly another example of how our government sometimes forget that it is "For the people, By the people."
Max Baucus a Democrat got the gunsmith exemption passed.
He had been trying to pass it for years.
It's hard to sort out what actually happened...Larry was pretty rattled when he talked to me.
Hamilton Bowen confirmed a good bit.
It is a s&^tstorm, especially since the BATF is already sitting in front of Congress answering questions...
mb
How does it parse with the existing rule that you can manufacture your own weapon? Is changing a stock "Substantive"? What about a trigger group? (Since a hammer is mentioned.)
Never mind shut down. These @#$#rds need arrested, charged, convicted, jailed and tossed into the general prison population as the scum they are.
Of course, that will never happen.
I checked the following sites and couldn't find a single word about this:
American Pistolsmith's Guild
Competitive Edge Gunworks
GOA
NRA
NSSF
SAF
and Barrett's, just because I could.
When might any of them be getting around to putting word of this up on their site?
Your guess is as good as mine, re: when more info posts elsewhere.
I tend to be a "first responder" because I have a wider network of sources in the field. I am also considered to have a pretty deep "Rolodex" and the ability to speak directly to the Powers-That-Be in the industry.
My unofficial function is to serve as a filter — I get about 2 "Black Helicopter Consiracies" a week; I can't imagine what our representatives inside the Beltway get. We cry "WOLF!" a lot. Sometimes, however, there is a wolf at the door.
An ideal resolution of this situation would be for BATF to pull a "Saturday Night Live" and say, "Never mind."
It has happened before.
Before I posted, I spoke extensively with Larry Crow — whom I need to speak more with, since he's changing his story slightly...understandable, because it's hard to think straight when you're standing in the cross-hairs. I also spoke with Pistolsmith of the Year of 2005 Bill Laughridge, who is one of the most level-headed people in the business (and who has a manufacturers license because he does indeed manufacture guns) and former attorney and top gunsmith Hamilton Bowen.
Larry's case aside, what I'm primarily interested in are the implications of the BATF move...which are every bit as chilling this AM as yesterday.
And, yes, I understand that from the gunsmiths' point of view, public information might be considered a provocation, making an already bad situation worse. I explained to then that once you pull the pin and roll the grenade into the room, you don't get to roll it back. That's the nature of battles fought in the media.
Finally, I also believe (as do very influential people in the RKBA power structure) that this might be the new face of gun control — a series of small battles for niches, either professionally or locally, that for the most part fly under the radar.
This is the second "local initiative" push I've seen in a year...the first being my brush with anti-gun Rangers operating in the Forest Service. We lost that one big time...even though the controllng Undersecretary of Agriculture came out "forcefully" on our side, no ranges in the West have reopened, and the local rangers have continued on their path of, as they now put it, "rethinking" shooting on national forest lands.
If I may quote Emerson, "When skating over thin ice, our salvation is in our speed."
mb
you know, the ATF *itself* is the organization that defined what a firearm is. per their own decision the firearm *is* the serial-numbered part. per their own definition, it is impossible to be manufacturing a firearm unless you are manufacturing the part that would be serialized...
American citizens need to be rid of this dangerous clan who have, within their power, the powers normally reserved to three separate branches of government.
I would imagine Thompson/Center would have some very strong things to say about this, as such a rule would basically eviscerate their product line. Why buy an Encore or Contender if you can't change the barrel without becoming a manufacturer first?
What about all the people that take old mausers and replace the barrel and stock to make a more usable and safer firearm
Does this mean that changing the upper on a AR-15 will be illegal?
what State does Larry Crow live in. I have shared this story with the heads of some major gun rights groups and one of the groups wants more info about this story. so they can begin working on a plan.
How about every single 10/22 owner who has swapped out a barrel, stock, trigger, hammer, etc. Maybe as long as you kept the gun for your own use you are okay. But, if you sell it you have to put it back in its original configuration.
Oh Man! Dad and I are sending off our Sako and Colt Sauer to MacMillan for stocks and some other work, eek!
Seriously, someone needs to take a can of Raid to the BATFU orifices and clean house. Run every last money/gun/grabbing punk outta there and start from scratch. And this time, include some oversight and accountability!!!
How about every single 10/22 owner who has swapped out a barrel, stock, trigger, hammer, etc. Maybe as long as you kept the gun for your own use you are okay. But, if you sell it you have to put it back in its original configuration.
Like me. The only original part on my 10/22 IS the receiver and bolt.
This needs to go to trial - preferably in the 5th Circuit.
I wonder if this is another of the brainstorming idiocy of Sterling Nixon, the head of the Tech branch of the BATF. He's crossed the line on many occasions and needs to be fired. I wouldn't be surprised if this was his idea too.
If anyone is interested in seeing more on Sterling Nixon, see the JPFO website on the US vs. Glover case...
By this disjointed logic, every Discount Tire and WalMart in America are automobile manufacturors...and every software vendor is a computer manufacturor. Be afraid!
Is it time to cook the books?
I think A grand revolution is needed to show the bean counters in washington they can spend less money keeping us safe with out gun control laws weakening our communities one house hold at a time... My .02
Hell, anyone thought about those of us who put together our own AR-15 rifles? You pretty much buy those part by part (at least my last custom one was bought that way). How is this defined under "making substational changes"? Hell, I'm not making changes, I'm putting together, lego-style, my own firearm.
I tend to agree with the more common-sense approach to confine the definition to the serialized part. Then again, Mr. Common Sense is getting his A$$ kicked in the corner again, so I don't know if he'll be able to make an appearance or not without a few letters to our Congressmen.
I propose an "eligant" solution!
to both national problems;
Bring the troops home from Iraq!!!
REPLACE THEM WITH THE "WACO-RUBY RIDGE HEROS:"
Send the BATFE/SS/GESTAPO to show the Iraq terrorists what true "TERRORIST" really all about.
Count on this 70 year old to be at the airport for the "send-off". I would even sing their "national anthem, the Horst Whisell's song.and my "sig heil's" will be from the heart,especially if this is a "one way event".
Bob Morgan and his 4 small dogs/friends killed, one by one over a 4 year span,by the FILTH OF ATF to make me angry then to justify killing me.
"I HAVE LOOKED UPON THE FACE OF EVIL",MAY GOD EXTERMINATE SUCH FROM THE RACE OF HUMANKIND,before another HOLOCAUST THOUSAND-FOLD BEFALLS US.
Do you have a citation to the full text where I can find the new BATFE definition of "manufacture"?
"The new BATF definition of "manufacturing a firearm" is "making any substantive changes to a firearm.""
Thanks.
This is not a new thing.
A number of years ago the Feds decided that although a one-off custom muzzleloader was not a "firearm" under GCA '68, that it was a firearm for purposes of excise taxes. So they hit up a number of muzzleloader makers. It ran John Bivens out of the flintlock business, he turned to making period cabinetry.
"Substantial changes"??? Like putting a 15 round magazine in a gun originally manufactured under the 10 round ban? I wouldn't put it past them.
As for the "serial number defining the gun", some guns (SKS's and CZ pistols) have the serial number on several parts.
Any updates on this issue?
The situation at ATF appears to be reaching critical mass:
"The Fairness in Firearms Testing Act" H.R. 1791 was introduced a week ago with 8 co-sponsers.
Basically ATF will be required to video document all tests and exams of firearms and ammo. No video, no evidence, no charges.
Put simply the ATF would like all police departments video document all evidence or submissions. To give you an idea of how much waste occurs if just US v. Glover, and US v. Wrenn were prevented, the amount of money saved would have funded the Act for nearly 600 years...
One must first understand that Fireams Technology Branch is THE determining member of ATF the dicides whether a firearm or device are under the purvue of the NFA. That is their only function in the US government.
When you consider that the Congressional Research Service Memorandum published in October 20 2005 documents the fact that FTB does not have a written testing standard, let alone one that is scientific in nature. If these guys get it wrong, you get indicted, and can go to prison. Not to mention the implications that would impact the NFRTR [as FTB decides what goes in the NFRTR].
The Attorney General WAS notified back in October of 05 and still continued to prosecute cases brought forth from "evidence" obtained by FTB tests...
It gets worse for Alberto Gonzales, He called the US Attorney of South Carolina in my presence, and threatened the man with his jop for dismissing the gun charges in a plea arrangement. This call was prompted by the Special Agent in Charge of the local office, who threatened to call DC over the deal.
That occurred November of 2005 during Us v. Wrenn. I was ther, and so was all the many camera in this ultra modern court house.
It is my understanding that an investigation may be under way over this. It's not that Alberto Gonzales did anything. Thats the problem, he openly ignored the issue and ineptitude and documented threats by employees of the BATFE, and merrirly continued to prosecute poor soul's like US v. Harris in Atlanta. They indicted and prosecuted an guy for possessing a "spare parts set" that was demilled to ATF specs.
Do not forget that Acting Director [placed by Gonzales] was officially nominated and now must undergo Senate nomination, Now may be time to ask you Senator to ask some direct question of the nominee.
Congressional pressure is by far the most effective way to force ATF to deal with issue. If Congress ever looks they may be shocked at what they find.
Len Savage
Historic Arms LLC
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