Friday, July 20, 2012

Colorado Mourns...

I don't have much to say here on the mass shooting in my home state. The crazy wants to be famous, and like Pavlov's drooling dogs we do exactly as he wants. I will, however, say this — the movie theater chain has prided itself as a "gun-free zone," with signs preventing anyone but police (and apparently lunatics) from carrying guns inside the theaters. How'd that work out? The same way it always works out.

I'm going to send you to two links. The first is from WaPo, bemoaning the fact that this madman will not end up having Americans baying for more gun's the nut graf:
"That the numbers on gun control remain steady even in the aftermath of such high profile events like Columbine, Virginia Tech and the Giffords shooting suggests that people simply don’t equate these incidents of violence with the broader debate over the right role for guns in our society. They view them as entirely separate conversations — and that’s why the tragedy in Aurora isn’t likely to change the political conversation over guns either."
Proving that Americans in general are smarter than the media and their progressive overlords by a pretty substantial margin. The second link is also an MSM one, from CNN, which inadvertently tells us one fact we already know, coupled with another statement we know to be wrong. Under the title of, "Gun control or carry permits won't stop mass murder," criminologist/antigun apologist (look him up) James Alan Fox notes:
"Mass killers are determined, deliberate and dead-set on murder. They plan methodically to execute their victims, finding the means no matter what laws or other impediments the state attempts to place in their way. To them, the will to kill cannot be denied."
"Cannot be denied..." I've said before, there are too many rats in the box, and some of those rats are badly broken. Fox goes on to restate a regular theme of his work, one you're going to be hearing a lot of in the next few days:
While logical in theory, in the chaos of the moment, few gun owners would be prepared to mount an effective counterattack. And in a crowded setting, such as the movie theater clouded with tear gas and smoke, it would be virtually impossible to distinguish the bad guy with a gun from the good guys with their guns.
Bullshit. We are not all cattle, ready to spill out what's left of our lives with our heads hung down. Remember that as the nasty storm spins up over the next week.

And, finally, remember one more thing: "Why" simply doesn't matter. Whether the crazy was abused as a child, ate too many Twinkies, lost his temper because he didn't get a ticket to opening night, or snorted too many bath salts, it doesn't matter! Evil exists, and it is our duty to resist it wherever it appears and whatever its guise.

Mourn the dead; comfort the living, and train.


John Richardson said...

It also goes to what you've said over and over on the podcast about crowds and crowded places. Crowds are dangerous and unpredictable while crowded places are more likely to attract the crazies looking for victims.

It also goes to having a plan in place to get out just in case.

Overload in Colorado said...

"While logical in theory, in the chaos of the moment, few gun owners would be prepared to mount an effective counterattack. And in a crowded setting, such as the movie theater clouded with tear gas and smoke, it would be virtually impossible to distinguish the bad guy with a gun from the good guys with their guns. Bullshit."

In the heat of a moment, MABYE. But this took place over 15 minutes before the boy got tired of killing and went outside to await the police.
It also looks like he may have been wearing a vest and helmet, which would have made it harder for a CCW holder or beat cop to take him down with their pistols.
I've been hearing about a proactive police response, unlike Columbine, but since he was outside, they got him as they were securing the perimeter.

Rob Drummond said...

I hate hearing about these incidents; terrible, sad, senseless & what a waste! I carry every day and also keep a loading pistol in my office at my business.

Where I live if anything would happen it would be long over before the police show up. Like you I say be prepared & observant to what is going on around you & of course train.

Fortunate for me I have never been in a situation like that & hopefully never will. But I'd like to think that if I were I'd be ready to take action if only to protect myself, family, & employees.
Rob Droummd
Hillsboro, NH

Michael Bane said...

True enough, Overload. But I think we come here to the lots of bullets school of thought. In a crowded arena, up-angle shots (such as head shots) or down-angle "mobility stop" shots (if possible) have the greatest chance of not causing any collateral damage.

We also need to factor vests into our training, which very few of us have done. We've talked about it a lot on the podcasts, but I don't think we've addressed any armor scenarios in THE BEST DEFENSE. I guarantee you that will change.

We're not dealing with soldiers or "send me to Allah" terrorists here...I think any hit anywhere would be likely to at least disrupt the carnage; should the aggressor fall to the ground from a mobility hit, there's an opportunity for more compelling targets such as the groin area or the head.

It sucks to talk about this stuff, but I do know for a fact that if you haven't thought about such a worst-case situation, you're going to be deer-in-the-headlights all the way!


nj_larry said...

Just a caveat...distrust EVERY SINGLE PIECE of information you hear on this story today. I have already heard so many scenarios I've turned off the TV and just went back to reading books (except for this little break). I heard multiple BGs, full auto fire, 90 seconds from call to cops on scene with IMMEDIATE surrender of BG, etc. And yes I did hear a witness say he was shooting for 15 minutes, but honestly that strains credulity. A quarter of an hour in a theater BEFORE the cops were called? Hard to believe. I bet it was a minute or two at most. Just saying....

One semi good thing was that the guns were purchased at Gander and Bass Pro apparently (again maybe). They have the money to defend their gun selling, as opposed to a small gun shop which would be demonized.

Anonymous said...

If the guns were purchased at a big box sporting goods store (and I haven't seen a confirming report), we know there was a background check, and he must have passed...

Had he not had guns, he could have driven his car into the crowd at the ticket booth or brought a couple concealed cans of gasoline into the theater or done other kinds of damage...

Evil people will do evil things...with whatever means they have.

Charlie Foxtrot said...

"...While logical in theory, in the chaos of the moment, few gun owners would be prepared to mount an effective counterattack..."

Like a certain 71 year old in Florida? The one how did mount an effective counterattack against two armed thugs. What about giving us a chance to resist, to fight, to save, to live.

Bullshit. indeed, Michael.

Darrell said...

Answer to Mr. Fox: Jeanne Assam.

Will said...

I suspect the biggest problem one of us would have in such a situation would be avoiding getting run over by the panicked crowd, while trying to get a shooting position.

Probably the only good thing about shooting at an armoured target is not worrying about rounds passing thru and hitting others. Don't really have to worry about ricochets, either, as it will mostly be soft armour.

Looking at the head-to-toe soft armour the LA/Hollywood(?) robbers had crafted back in '97, you have to figure the most viable target is the head, and maybe only the face, with most handgun loads. If you have a heavy caliber handgun, you might be able to pound them into non-action long enough to get close up for a stopping shot. Remember that Richard Davis put a very thick phonebook under his soft armour, to handle the impact of his demonstration shots. Otherwise, you get massive bruising and cracked ribs, in general.

It's a shame that soft armour piercing rounds are illegal. This would be the scenario where you would want a backup mag loaded with such rounds. But, to protect the po-po, we pay the price of lacking the better (not best, that would be a rifle) gear to handle this sort of thing.

Anonymous said...

Well said, friend. Well said.

Anonymous said...

I seem to remember: years ago a female Israeli soldier put an end to a similar situation with a contact shot to the neck.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mr. Bane for speaking the truth. Your blog is informative and refreshing as well.

Dave Sohm said...

"It would be virtually impossible to distinguish the bad guy from the good guy."

I think the guy shooting innocent people in a crowded theater would stand out pretty prominently.

shawn w said...

i go back to a lesson learned from you Micheal, "avoidance"
i don't put myself or my sweetie in spots where I'm prohibited from defending myself. no guns means no $.

there is a reason you don't see these things happening at your local range.

i am deeply saddened for the victims and their families.

call me callus but upon hearing about this tragedy this morning i made a bee line to the computer to order a dozen standard capacity mags for the AR & glock in anticipation of an executive order from B-HO.

Anonymous said...

The most disgusting part of this for me is that the media makes so much money selling commercials during the coverage of the tragedy. When they go "wall-to-wall" coverage on anything, whether it is Lady Di, or anything, I turn off the TV, Radio, whatever. I can't do anything to help the victims, but I refuse to help inflate the advertising stats for the benefit of the broadcasters dancing in blood.

Initial reports are incomplete, incorrect, filled with breathless "journalists" who are sure that this is there shot at national exposure, and stomach turning.

I can read all about it tomorrow, get a better idea of what, who, when, etc, and not have to put up with the disgusting spectacle of the chattering class selling deodorant.

"gunner" said...

"target rich environment", when i was working as an armoured truck guard, making cash pickups in shopping malls, my biggest worry was getting in a firefight in a crowded mall, with a perp not caring whats down range, while i'm trying to put him down and not hit an innocent bystander. i thank whatever gods there be that it never came down to that for me.

Rastus said...

First, damn the thinking that would disarm everyone and make it illegal to defend one's self in an absolute tragedy like this. Next, I believe it is important to point out that firearm training is very important as an aide to effective personal defense.

I'm not talking about "Billy Bob" bottle target shooting and plinking that we all enjoy. I'm speciically talking about attending a reputable training facility like Gunsite, USSA, Thunder Ranch, Blackwater, etc. for professional firearms (tool) useage instruction.

Cetainly someone without training can make a shot and be effective. However, that same person with minimal training would without doubt be tremendously more effective in protecting themselves and their families in a gunfight.

If you are doubtful and have never trained please jump over to and get started training on your own with some of the excellent videos and see if you do not improve.

This is a tragedy compounded by gun-free zones. Thankfully my state, Oklahoma, which allows public venues like theatres, malls, markets and the such to be gun free does temper that with a maximum penalty of tresspasing (usually $75-$100) only if you do not leave after being specifically asked to leave (and how do they know if you stay concealed?).

Please recognize that if you or a family member are confronted with losing your life and you are a concealed carry or open carry firearms owner or some other legal firearms holder that in the worst confrontation of your life you are not a shooter. You are a gunfighter. You should train as a gunfighter.

D Patterson said...

Without being there I can't be sure, but chances are I would not have tried to shoot him in those circumstances. I would, however surely hyave tried to take him down physicaly. He can't be looking everywhere and he was stopping to reload, as well. Plenty of opportunity to jump the SOB. Just as at VA Tech, people seemingly waited their turn to die. I just can't get my head around that style of inaction.

Michael Bane said...

We just made a decision to "model" Aurora for the next season of TBD. Scary, but I think it's the right thing to do. In my note to the guys, I said our first and foremost challenge is to teach people how to stay alive in hell.

Focus will be on survival first, taking out the aggressor second. D. Patterson, I agree. The shoot point SEEMS TO ME, OPERATING ON INCOMPLETE AND PERHAPS ERRONEOUS INFORMATION, came at the point the aggressor stepped to the center of the stage and fired a shot into the ceiling. After that, we go into a survival mode. Important note...I've shot scenarios/stages in a gas peripheral vision, fogging, etc. If you had the opportunity to physically attach such an aggressor from the back, a knife might be a handy tool to have.


Michael Bane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rastus said...

Absoutely a knife or physical contact. Those same reputable firearms training facilities also have combatent training with no weapon, edged weapons and also with firearms. It's good you guys brought up the physical contact/edged weapon option...and of course the escape option.

1st thing it to make your family safe and escape may be the best option.

Again, you guys are right on target with the other options. Some of us have gotten so out of shape that we've practically eliminated those things as options which leaves us with less of an option.

I have practiced the manuver Mr. Janich showed with the punch in the face and knife in the face proceeding down the center of the body and going for the mobility stop by cutting across the inside top of the leg. Everyone I have showed that combination shudders. It is a most brutal option.

So, absolutely consider the other options. And again, absolutely employ training to make those options more viable.

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