Sunday, February 28, 2016

Michael Talks Politics (I'm Sorry)

So, in the Dim Times Before, 2008, before the election, I happened to be in D.C. at a bar with a group of whom we might now refer to as "establishment Republicans," and they were haranguing me. Sure, they said, John McCain might not be the guy you'd have picked, because you're a gun guy, the classic one issue voter. But, told me over some pretty good beer and world class beer nuts, the people chose him, and we need you and people like you to help rally the gun vote around a guy we all knew would sell us out in a heartbeat. "But the people have spoken," was the operative phrase, and because I am and American patriot, I actually believe in that antiquated stuff. I'd been part of the Fred Thompson's "let's go tilt at a windmill" campaign…but the people spoke.

Fast forward 4 years, before the 2012 election, and I'm on the phone with one of those establishment types. Sure, he says, Romney's a putz, but he's an electable putz. Remember, he won the primaries, he's the man, the people have spoken. Again.

This morning I see that Mitch McConnell says if Donald Trump is nominated — that is, the people that were so important in previous years speak and say "Trump" — no one in the Republican Party will work for him or, should he be elected, with him. Rumors are rife that should Trump be nominated the Republican Party autocrats may run their own independent candidate.

If they do, it's time to barbecue the damned elephant. I hate these sons of bitches.


Unknown said...

And I'll bet those establishment DC types you spoke of have done pretty well for themselves in the last 8 years. They MADE MONEY off big gov. They luv the cheap labor allowed into the country. They don't care about the devaluation of our money. Now Trump MAY do what he sez and break their rice bowl. But we KNOW Hillary and Rubio will do their bidding. And uncertainty is what the FASCISTS that the establishment has become fear most. And you might tell your establishment buds that if they try and put in Rubio or Jeb! in a "brokered" convention, I and many others WILL NEVER VOTE FOR ANY REPUBLICAN IN ANY RACE EVER AGAIN.

Overload in Colorado said...

1860 all over again. Whigs to Republicans

Anonymous said...

And thus 2016 will go to Hillary. Might as well let Obama pick Scalia's replacement now instead of wasting our time.

230grainball said...

Sad thing is, we don't really know where Trump stands on anything. His positions on so many things have changed dramatically since he started his presidential bid. He used to be anti gun. At one point, he praised Obamacare. He donated to Hillary Clintons 2008 presidential campaign.He even once suggested that Oprah would be a potentially good choice for his V.P. I listen to him speak and he often sounds like he is pandering to the audience. His statement a few days ago where he said that he "Loves uneducated voters" is particularly disturbing.

That said, Hillary Clinton is no friend to gun owners and neither is Bernie Sanders.

I don't suppose that it's possible to go a term without a president. It would mean no new laws for four years..... hey, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

NJ Larry said...

As one who has tangled with you over "politics" in those DTB 2008, I always love to hear your thinking about our state of affairs. I today firmly agree with you. The Republicans are unworthy of our support. Trump is going to be the nominee. Period. Some of the Republicans are stepping forward, like Jeff Sessions this evening. I will vote for him. As for the establishment running a 3rd party....I don't believe that will happen. They will simply throw their support behind Clinton. Republicans for Hillary will have big names speaking on her behalf. This only makes this election so much more important.

Unknown said...

I don't trust Trump at all. He panders to the audience and has no standards. He claims to be pro-gun but supports an "assault weapons ban". He says he's a Christian, but has never asked for forgiveness for his sins and was the first to put a strip club in a casino. He says he wants to kick the illegals out, but believes in a path to citzenship. He says he anti abortion, but wants to fund planned parenthood. He says he wants universal healthcare, that's not very conservative. He has already stated his first SC nominee will be his sister who is a abortion activist. How do you think she will vote on guns? Trump has shown that he can't even find decent business partners, some of which are currently in JAIL.
The list goes on and on. You think BHO is bad, just wait if Trump gets in. The polls already show Clinton or Bernie beating him. The establishment can run a third party and it will be a larger win for Clinton.
I agree with what a close friend said the other day, " I have never voted for a democrat and I'm not starting with Trump."
If he is the nominee then my vote will go to the Constitution Party and whoever their nominee is.

Will said...

So what do you do if Trump is the nominee? Stay home? I don't think so. I'm voting for anybody but Hillary.

Tim Burke said...

I am not a Trump fan, but he has shown us a number of very important things this campaign. Once seen, these things cannot be unseen. He's shown us how important CONTROLLING immigration is to many voters. He's shown us that that one does not have to always be politically correct. Most importantly, he has shown us how corrupt the Republican establishment is.

"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin

Mitch McConnell is taking a different approach; as long as we let him pick the candidates, he doesn't care who counts the votes. He and all the other establishment R-rats have made it clear that they don't share our values. Does he really want to pursue a scorched Earth policy? Perhaps he need to check a map and see where he lives.

Anonymous said...

Why not elect sincere people to Congress and state government? Why not tell the states to step up and rein the federal government in? The states love the "free" money and have lain on the alter of "free" money. With it come the restrictions and requirements. Take power away from the federal government. I don't know about others but my money cost me time, training and perhaps health; it was not free.

Moosejaw said...

Hate politics but am entrenched in it once again. Quick IPhone response. A constitutional amendment is needed. In this age of instant communication anywhere on the planet (and beyond) we make it illegal for politicians (house/senate), from working in DC. They must report to an office in their district and communicate in sessions via a secure electronic medium.

No more beltway schmoozing. No more back room deals and the Pols will be right there to answer their constituents questions on a daily basis, and become that 'public servant' thing oft spoke of but never realized.

It's my dream. Naïve as it it may be....but I'm sticking to it.

magnus.eunson said...

Read the 12th Amendment. Read it carefully (text copied/pasted below from this site: ).

If Trump and Clinton are the nominees from Republican and Democrat parties, a third candidate could run and only needs to get enough electoral votes (i.e., win enough states) to deprive both Trump AND Clinton from getting 270 electoral votes. that would throw the election into the House of Representatives. At that point, each state's House delegation gets one vote. If the state's delegation has a majority of Republicans, that delegation's one vote will go to the Republican (non-Trump, "independent") candidate and that person will become President. So, the way I see this, the Republican "establishment" that I do not really trust but that I trust much more than I trust Trump, will pick someone and throw their money and organizational strength behind that candidate in an effort to win about 50-100 electoral votes so the election goes to the House. As long as they pick someone who is solidly pro-gun, and preferably solidly anti-abortion, I'm voting for that establishment "independent". And each of you should, too.

Passed by Congress December 9, 1803. Ratified June 15, 1804.

Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. --]* The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

*Superseded by section 3 of the 20th amendment.

SCextremist said...

I don't trust Trump, for the same reasons I didn't trust McCain or Romney, their history.
BUT, Trump has shown that standing up to the establishment will work, The People will back that sort of thing.
One thing I will give Trump credit for is that he is taking us, Conservatives, rightv up to the edge, maybe past it, of destroying the RINO party. I'm looking forward to that.

SCextremist said...

I don't trust Trump, for the same reasons I didn't trust McCain or Romney, their history.
BUT, Trump has shown that standing up to the establishment will work, The People will back that sort of thing.
One thing I will give Trump credit for is that he is taking us, Conservatives, rightv up to the edge, maybe past it, of destroying the RINO party. I'm looking forward to that.

Anonymous said...

To think that HRC could be President is a sobering thought. More Government "help", more executive orders (limited in power though they may be),changing the supreme court orientation and throwing up every barrier to legal fun ownership. We need to stop Hillary no matter what the cost.

I do not trust Trump further than I can throw him. Does anyone here think that he can win the general election?

Make sure you show up for the House and Senate elections. At least then we can blunt HRC's directives.

Anonymous said...

First off, our dollar is STRONG. That's why it's so much easier for us to IMPORT goods from foreign countries than to export them. We get more for our money and conversely, our goods cost too much for other countries to want to buy; they get less. It's also why there's a trade deficit. Remember, it's our fellow citizens that are doing the buying of those foreign goods. It's paradoxical that we would actually want our dollar "weak". In the least, we would want it "neutral", if anyone can actually define that level. China is diluting their currency, so that it is weak vs. the dollar, so that their goods appeal to us here. We have to not allow currency manipulation as Trump is SAYING. (Please don't confuse that with inflation of the dollar that makes it worse for us at home.)

And the "Trans Pacific Partnership/TPP, or "Trade Act"? It's supported by the farmers! Wall Street and "bankers" get blamed for that (they're the favorite "whipping-boys"), but it is actually Democ'-Rat supporting farmers that are driving that. The farmers get subsidized for their crop prices and other "costs", such as crop insurance, etc. That's why they aren't sensitive to selling to weaker currencies from other nations. Just another hand-out to Democrats and their supporters.

Some here should be careful what they toss around as facts. Someone having "said" something isn't the same as "says", or what they are saying now. I'll take someone who panders to their supporters, as long as we're the supporters that are driving the support. After-all, who is better to be further "driven" than the candidate that we got into office. We just can't back the pushing off! This is a 24-7 game.

Last, be careful when you recommend "changing the design", or in this case, amending the Constitution. As an engineer, without exaggeration, 90% of the requests I got to "re-design" something were not required. I usually found out and proved that "they" simply weren't using the design as intended, or someone made an un-authorized change. But this isn't engineering? The Constitution is simply a "blue-print" and technical specification. So, the next time someone uses the overused cliché. "The system is broken", realize that you just discovered the systemic root-cause of the problem.

Last, "...never vote for a Republican again"? Seriously? You just handed victory to your enemy! The battle-cry has to be "We will stand, fight and WIN!"

Life Member

Anonymous said...

May I also add:

As much as we all have a tendency to be satisfied with "all or nothing", WE did still win when it comes to electing a Republican House in 2010 and Senate in 2012. We own the Congress! Sure, they have taken a reserved approach with "Obama-Care" and some other things and they've been anemic on any form of fighting back against Democrat negative propaganda. But, we have not seen any mass-sellout of our Second Amendment rights. Rather, we have actually witnessed them holding firm and they are actually becoming bolder by OUR constant push!

Republicans have also given cover to many Democrat 2-A supporters, allowing them to keep their heads down and avoid fire from their own party. Even though the Republicans under Paul Ryan, have compromised with Democrats on financial bills, they have held the line on gun rights and have actually curtailed funds to "enforce" executive actions against them. They've even killed the continuous onslaught of gun-grabbing bills submitted by the same-old-same-olds.

Further, the Republicans are positioned to hold-off any approval of a third Obama Supreme Court nominee. Remember, the resumes of his last two were riddled with such qualifications as "I'll be looking through the eyes of a Latina woman.", or "I believe the Constitution is a 'Living Document'", etcetera. There was no mention of past scrutiny of actual law with an unbiased eye, or eyes biased TO THE LAW! We can't give him a third nominee under any circumstances.

Remember, it is the Congress, House and Senate, that make the laws. They keep the tyrannical Executive in-check. Sure, the executive branch is desperately trying to get away with more executive actions of all types, but Congress holds the purse.

So, I'd be further wary of anyone who says "Never again...."

Stand, fight and win the Executive Branch too. Then continue and repeat!

Life Member

Anonymous said...

Here you go:

Just out today!

Life Member

Michael Bane said...

Gosh…I don't even know where to start. The reason we're looking at this dog's breakfast of an election is that at the hgihest level there is functionally no difference between the Republican elites and the Democratic elites. And they despise us equally.

The Trump phenomenon, and it is a phenomenon, is the inevitable result of he increasing separation between the elites and the rest of the country, the culture war that the current Democratic administration has been throwing gasoline on for 7 years. We no long have the same values, share the same goals and aspirations; we respect the Constitution; they see it as an impediment to be worked around. Those issues that are life and death for those of us in the hinterlands -- immigration, the shattered economy, the steady erosion of our rights, the loss of local control over education, the war on the Second Amendment, the steady poison of politically correctness that is strangling this country -- are literally of no consequence to our elites.

As far as " a politician you can trust," I haven't trusted a politician since I was about 11 years old. I have never met a politician worthy of trust. The best you can hope for is that the politician won't screw you that badly once he or she has their dacha by the sea. Take Rubio -- and as I have made clear, I will vote for the Republican candidate if they nominate the Best of Show from Westminster -- who rode the Tea Party express to success, then immediately sat down with John McCain and Chuck Schumer to negotiate a blanket amnesty. Two points here -- I wasn't aware that amnesty was a platform of the Tea Party and, second, I would not sit down at a bar for a drink if McCain and Schumer were on nearby barstools, much less enter into a deal with them on a subject that was and is a breaking point issue between the elite and the larger community of Americans.

Imagine how wide a gap it takes for the Republican establishment to suggest that Jeb Bush -- JEB BUSH! -- would be the perfect candidate.What alternative universe do you have to be living in to think that yet another Bush, who supported the bulk of the Democratic party platform and who would, by virtue of his last name, be unable to pull a single independent or Democratic vote.

None of the candidates now running will do what they say they will do,, fulfill their promises, help make America great again. None of them. The best we can hope for is that they don't drive us over the edge of the cliff. Rest assured, Hillary certainly will.


harlequingr said...

hi michael,

love your shows especially shooting gallery.i have been watching it(them) many,many 14 year old daughter loves it as much as i got her into guns.

as far as the politco bs.trump is no friend to us pro gunners.don't let him fool you.

hillary is far worse.but i would give bernie a chance.i think he will be helpful to the 2nd amendment and the pro gun movement.if for nothing else he will be more sympathetic.he will certainly get rid of the billonaire anti gunners.

Mike V. said...


I was on the Thompson wagon in 08 also. As 230 said, Trump is pandering and I sometimes feel like I'm in an episode of The Twilight Zone where my friends are blind and I'm the only one that can see. Rubio would at least be a know commodity (RINO). God Help The Republic!!!

Michael Bane said...

Agree with all of you on "God Help the Republic!"

I have a a bit more faith in Trump's Second Amendment positions because of my personal conversations with Don Jr. well before the campaign and Trump's entry into it. I had been talking to Don about doing an episode of SHOOTING GALLERY, perhaps our one annual hunting episode. The conversation turned to his father, and I mentioned that Trump held some opinions I couldn't agree with. Don's response was, more or less, "Not anymore." He explained that he hand his brother Erik had had long conversations with their father over the last couple of years, and Trump Sr. had completely come around. Don Jr. and Erik are the real deal — big game hunters who have taken the heat and fought back, competition shooters and strong strong supporters of the Second Amendment. We talked a bit more, and Don's words to me seemed to ring true. I have heard repeatedly from people near Trump that he considers his 3 children his main advisors and the people who have helped him shape his thinking. I have no reason to believe Don was running some complicated game more than a year in advance of the campaign.

I have stated before that Trump's published position paper on gun is strongly written enough that *I* could have written it:

He has made it a point that he has a CCW and carries a firearm for self-defense. He has answered repeatedly and consistently on issues like CCW reciprocity, the failure of gun-free zones, and the necessity of the Second Amendment as a bulwark of American freedom.

I don't know how much more you can ask of the man. Has he changed his position over the years. Yes. But to me the fact that members of his immediate family are part of the gun culture and have been involved in our fight make his changes in opinion more viable than say, Chris Christie, who started pardoning people ensnared in New Jersey's wildly antigun laws only after he decided to run for President. My girlfriend, in our 23 year relationship, has had a profound effect on the way I think, including changing my mind on topics. It is not unreasonable for people to be changed by family members they know and love.

I wanted Perry; I would prefer Cruz, but I will support Trump.


_DonWorsham_ said...

Not to mention the endorsements from Jeff Sessions, Steve Forbes, Sarah Palin all true conservatives. Trump will likely take most of the states on March 1st and 15th.

I'm voting for Cruz on the 15th and Trump in November.

A vote not cast for the GOP nominee is a vote wasted.

Anonymous said...

Guns of America endorse Cruz and nor Trump.

Vote for guns, vote for Cruz.

Michael said...

So, the last eight years the GOP "establishment" has been rocking it on their pro-gun stances, and we have seen major progress. Then, the "Republican" who is genuinely anti-gun shows up, and you're all "let's burn it all down" and vote for him?

harlequingr said...

that is the gist of it.we all have to ban together to stop trump at all costs.

i guess nobody remembers or just conveniently wants to forget, that trump backed hillary against obama in 2008.not only that but he made many snide remarks about the republicans and stated that he was glad to be a democrat.look back and you will see that trump donated millions to her campaign.trump is a democrat in disguise.

he can't be trusted and should not be in the highest office in the land.he has an agenda that people are still trying to figure.when you get down to it he is not a politician.he is out only for himself and is truly a capitalistic greedy businessman.he represents the .5%( yes,you read that right,1/2 of 1%)of the richest americans that control the other 99.5% of we really need this when we have been living with the rich making their billions off the backs of the poor and middle class for decades?

i am totally for guns and the 2nd amendment.i love being a gun owner and i passed that along to my children.we religiously watch "wednesday night a the range"on the outdoor channel and go shooting together.i have been a patron member of the nra for over 20 years but we need to look at other issues.not just our gun rights and the 2nd be a single issue voter will hurt us and this country and in the end if we continue to do that will lose our 2nd amendment gun rights.hell,we may even lose the 2nd amendment period.trump is a bigot and racist.he is akin to hitler. is this the future we want for our country and our children?

let us all use our heads and think.tell everyone to not vote for trump.he has stated many times that is does not like guns.he is a double talker and a bs artist. rubio and cruz are straight shooters.they will earn tha office of the president.

Sasquatch said...

What the Cruz bots don't want to talk about is his wife is on suprr left wing Council On Foreign Affairs. Author of study to merge Mexico America and Canada. Top exec at Goldman Sachs. "FORGOT " to mention million dollar loan on Federal election filing. Yup Cruz is as phony as the worst of them.

Stuart the Viking said...

Frankly, I feel like the Republican party left me behind many years ago. Every election, I look at the Republican candidate and they just seem to be worse than the last one.

To me, Trump represents the final implosion of the Republican party, if not the entire country. Look, the Democrats' presidential offering will probably be Hillary. A candidate so transparently corrupt that by comparison, a worn out admitted socialist like Bernie Sanders starts to look good. If the Republicans can't bring it together enough to beat THAT, it's time to close Republican headquarters for good. They have failed so spectacularly, that there is no point in continuing.

On the other hand, what if Trump WINS? Every stupid thing he does in office will be blamed on the Republican party. Trump seems to think that sound-bytes (as long as they are his) make a good substitute for policy, and inexplicably, a rather frightening number of people seem to agree with him. What's the chance that he WON'T screw up royally? Even if the stupid is all things that Hillary WOULD have done, when they go spectacularly bad (and they will), the Democrats will be right there to point fingers.

Previously, I intended to either stay home, or randomly vote ANY third party candidate rather than Trump (likely whoever the Libertarian is, if there is one. I haven't bothered to look). However, in the hope that Michael is right about Trump's 2A stance being REAL, I might reconsider. IF Trump protects the 2A (and that is still an "if" for me), perhaps even if everything else he touches turns to crap, it will be better than the alternative.

harlequingr said...

trump is not the better alternative.yes 2A rights are the most important to me but what really are gun rights without the other bill of rights.once those rights are taken away,the 2A are not far behind.i could not live in a country with a dictator.he quotes mussolini.who's next,hitler?? i don't want that life for my children.we need to think about the greater good not just one issue.

Anonymous said...

We all need to pay attention to what is still going on. Don't draw any conclusions yet. Remember the famous saying: "Don't believe anything that you hear and only half of what you see".

There's far more to this story yet to come.

Gird your loins!

Life Member

Stuart the Viking said...

George Monaco, I wasn't talking about Trump being a better alternative to Cruz or Rubio. While I don't completely like either one of those two, either one would be better that Trump in my opinion. However, unless something completely unexpected happens, Trump is what we are going to get.

Frankly, I thought there would be VERY little difference between a Trump and a Hillary administration. However, if Michael is right and Trump IS solid on the 2A. Then there would be that ONE difference. So the choice would be between SHIT with massive, possibly devastating, attacks on the 2A, and SHIT with (maybe) the 2A staying intact. Personally, I would rather the second. At least if things REALLY went off the rails we would still have the option of shooting our way out.

Anonymous said...

No, Michael is NOT right - the "Donald" is lousy on guns.

Despite his recent battlefield conversion to a strong 2A "supporter" he hasn't said one thing to make me think that when he is prezzy that will make any effort to actually, you know, EXPAND gun rights, much less defend the 2A against attacks.

No, he is an elitest, just like the rest of them. He brags about how tough it is to get a permit in NYC but has no intention of making it any easier for us proles to do that (like proposing NATIONAL Constitutional carry for example).

He doesn't give a crap about the "little people".

I used to think that I would vote for him just cause I couldn't stand to see the Hildebeast in the WH.

But now I'm not so sure. After all "what difference does it make at this point"?

If the country is going to finally dissolve maybe it should do so under Hillary.

At least there won't be a "Republican" prezzy in office when it does.

harlequingr said...

to be honest,i really think that bernie sanders will do a lot to help this country.i really believe that he is the lesser of all evils.just think about it for a moment.the world looks at gun owners as stupid and just out to kill people for no reason. we know that is way far and away off the mark.bernie has a level head.i really think that he would be good for the pro gunner in this country.he is against the rich and the .5% that use money to get what they want.well what does the anti gun movement need to gain any momentum? that's right, getting rid of the super pac and taxing them(the rich) heavily, he will put the money toward the poor and middle class social programs,education,healthcare,etc.once there is no or very little money from the rich to support the anti gun movement bernie will come in and support 2A.once he gets the country back on tract i think the pro gun movement and preservation of the 2A will remain intact.

bernie is also for many good programs that will help people in america.he is for legalization of marijuana.any candidate that has that mindset(hippie,woodstock) will support gun rights.

as gun owners we love guns.we use them as a tool to benefit others.we get enjoyment from hunting and competing,plinking and reloadind.they are not weapons of mass destruction like every anti gunner thinks.i love my guns and even when i am gone from this earth they will go to my pro gun kids or get buried with me.that is why i want to say this and implore everyone that cherishes their right to bear arms to listen.republicans are not the only ones that support the 2A and the pro gun movement.we have to stop thinking that way.there are many republicans that are anti 2A and many democrats that are pro 2A the top of my head for anti gun republicans are bloomberg,guiliani,gov.pataki, gun democrat,former gov.rendell,sen.john tester,house rep.mike ross,house rep.heath shuler,house rep.dan boren,rep.ben nelson.

if we want people to accept us and not discriminate against gun owners and the pro gun movement then we have to stop discriminating and generalizing when it comes to pro vs anti gun politicians.things are never what they seem.

Anonymous said...

George Manaco,

How will confiscation of wealth actually help the poor? My God man! Go to Hillsdale College's website ("")and attend their FREE on-line "Economics-101". They also have "Constitution-101". Every despot in history either took-charge at the end of a gun's barrel, or he fooled the populace with such empty promises such as you're falling for.

I'll never trade my gun rights for servitude. That's exactly what you'll be doing. Don't think for a minute that confiscating wealth won't come with total disarmament. Remember, "An unarmed populace is a compliant populace".

Life Member

harlequingr said...

life member,

i am a patron life member.

you just don't get it do you.that is why the general public thinks pro gunners,pro 2A people like us are stupid and only into need an education in economics.and if people like you keep shooting off your mouth and sounding uneducated then the public's assessment of gun owners and pro 2A like us will be the reason tha anti gunners will win the fight.why don't you educate yourself.

the highly taxed wealthy and extremely wealthy would pay a much higher tax.the poor and the middle class pay way less or next to nothing.the taxes from the rich go to social programs such as healthcare,money for vets.women, education,so students do not have to pay for college and many other programs.

in this country right now there are over 100 million poor and counting.the middle class is becoming poor.there is no way to ever be one will ever get rich working in a regular job.i don't care how much it pays.trump's father gave him a "small"loan of 1 million dollars. wow!!! small?? his father was a billionaire and he inherited it for a greedy,double talking prick like that and see where your gun rights are then.

if you don't like this idea then either you must have a lot of money,be extremely rich or are very greedy.

Stuart the Viking said...

Well... that explains where all the Bernie Sanders coolaid went.

Anonymous said...

No George Monaco, perhaps unlike many, I work extremely hard. I am the "Typical American Boy" of the 20th century. There are many more like me, but we seem to be a dying breed.

I started at the bottom and worked my way up. I took NOTHING from anyone, not even my family. I started out by doing physical labor. I learned more than one trade and put myself through engineering school. I was always willing to work for what I wanted. I went to work when I was sicker than a dog. I studied when my buddies were going hunting and fishing. And oh yeah, my father died unexpectedly in my arms, when I was twenty-five and I found myself with a somewhat dependent mother. I am also charitable and work hard to be a good neighbor.

Then, I became a "maker" not a "taker". No social program can replace a sound work ethic. I started out "POOR"! I worked regular jobs. When one didn't pay enough, I got two! I was also married and was in college (night school) at the time and it took nine years to complete that. I've done it. If you do as I did, then you'll accomplish what I have. No brag, this is my resume. Crying about why it's not possible is a joke. I heard all of that in the 1950's too. It's the defeatist's credo.

I, in-turn passed this family work ethic on to our son and guess what? He's following in the old mans footsteps. He isn't stepping on anyone. Right now, he's willing to work for a little less in a small up-start private company so that he can learn. If the place needs sweeping-out, he'll do that too. By the way, he also worked his way through college (a private school) and he has two (2) under-grad' degrees that he did simultaneously. He EARNED Bachelors on Science degrees in Civil Engineering AND Architecture and went on to finish his Maters in Architecture. AND he is student-debt-free; he paid them off as soon as he could. How did he do that? The day after he graduated from high school, I took him around and showed him where WORK was at. Then he did the rest. He worked in a filthy factory along side with junkies and the dregs of society, but they were also working. He didn't make enough there to support school, so he got a second job at a local department store on midnights on the weekends. So, he worked two jobs and went to college at the same time. The more he learned, the better his jobs got. Man was he fortunate. Of yeah, and it's no surprise that he's an Eagle Scout.

As Jesus Christ said, "The poor will always be among us", but he also cautioned us about the "vain-glory" of charity. That's where you provide charity to someone only because it makes YOU feel good, but it does nothing for those receiving it. So, you can stop being charitable with other people's money. How about looking at what you can contribute. Don't try to demean me because I am not a slave to the government or to you. The general public can separate gun issues from social issues.

The simple reason that your theory doesn't work is that if you only put dis-incentives in front of people, how will you ever progress? You can't tell someone "the harder you work, the more you'll pay", without them asking "why bother then?". On the other hand, you can't keep giving away "freebies" to someone and expecting that they'll somehow start to do for themselves.

My grandparents fled Russia just before the Bolshevik Revolution. They left with "the shirts on their backs" and worked in the US coal mines, where no one else wanted to work. Then, they worked their way up too. In Russia, they heard Lenin and Trotsky promise the very things that you're dreaming of. You know how that all ended. The same as every other Marxist government. In the end, they took all of the guns away too.

So, it was all handed to me on a "silver platter", wasn't it?.
I just don't get it, do I?


Life Member

Stuart the Viking said...

George Monaco,

Or, perhaps I can see the GIGANTIC holes in your economic theory that you seem to be blind to.

Not to mention that at this point, Bernie Sander's only chance at even BEING a presidential candidate revolve around a DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED Justice department actually inditing what the DEMOCRAT ESTABLISHMENT see's as their best chance at winning the Presidency. Ain't gonna happen.

harlequingr said...

life member,

i came from a poor an adult i am poor again.lost my home in foreclosure,i have no money and now it looks like i will be living on the street with my 14 year old daughter.

my family is italian and came to america just like yours back in the late 1800's.they struggled and never made money.broke their bakcs to make the rich you are not the only one.

i want to say this to everyone.this banter back and forth about guns this and guns that makes us pro gunners and 2A supporters sound like idiots.first of all the 2A is not the only issue here and for some reason gun owners lose sight of i guess it is ok to keep our guns but education,healthcare, the homeless problem,womens rights,minority rights,etc should just be thrown in the americans we can't do this.if we are going to survive as a country we need to think about other issues.a one issue voter,like many 2A supporters and pro gunners,is what is going to take our country down the wrong path.stop thinking about yourselves.think of the bigger picture.

just because a person is democrat does not mean they are not for guns.i suggest you read my post at 12:58 pm.i listed the democrats that are, and the republicans that are not, for gun rights.there are many more.

i suggest that you all stop talking garbage.that is why the 2A movement will never get anywhere because of people like have to stop thinking republican and stop voting the straight republican ticket.gun rights are a small part of the bill of rights.we need to keep all of our rights intact.i noticed one thing about pro gunners.they are very closed minded.start to think outside the box and maybe we all will get somewhere.

Anonymous said...

George Monaco,

Dear New Friend, There are no parallel sets of Laws of Natural Science; ones that work for liberals and one that works for conservatives. There is only one set. They have been proven over time immemorial. Those laws include the laws of: physical science, mathematics and economics, to name a few. The reason that the laws of economics work is because they are based on statistics and human nature. They have worked with great predictability since the most primitive tribes began to trade excess food for beads. They will continue to work with great predictability well beyond our time. Whenever someone thinks that they've invented a new economic theory, or are ignorant of the old ones, the same result is realized; failure. There is no "thinking outside the box". The outcome is certain. By the way "politics" is a science based on human behavior as well.

Further, to confound the subject of economics with some perceived entanglement with "2A" issues is absurd. We all realize that there are many Democrat gun enthusiasts. Their politics are what is defective.

I'd suggest that you study hard and apply yourself. When you realize that what I am recommending is true, your success will be unstoppable. Perhaps you can allow your daughter to read my diatribe. See what she says. Feel free to allow her to keep this dialogue going. I'm up for it.

Last, what I'm about to say isn't meant to insult or punish you, but I have to ask: How's your method working for YOU? Don't give me the answer, but tell it to yourself. Your lack of success isn't because others are successful. Your potential is as great or greater than theirs though.

I wish you well and hope that all of the best will come to you and your daughter,

Life Member

harlequingr said...


i guess you didn't read my whole post.look at my post of 12:58pm.i list the dems for and the repubs against 2A.

i did not say they were enthusiasts.these democrats that are for 2A and are pro gun were rated by the NRA as A,A+,B,etc.the republicans that are anti 2A and anti gun rights are rated by the NRA as D's,F's.not enthusiasts but their politics.most senators and congressmen have at one time or another owned and avidly used guns for recreation and competition.hell,Obama shoots guns all the time.Bill Clinton went hunting with friends that were both democrats and did JFK,Lyndon Johnson,Jimmy Carter.the list goesn on and a matter of fact there are gun shoots and competitions between the senators and congressmen,democrat and republican alike, sponsored by the NRA and other gun organizations which take place every year.

to address my "method",i am 62,disabled with severe psoriatic arthritis and on ssi disability.i also get child i have very little coming in.i worked for 40 years of my life as a productive american citizen and supported my if you are alluding to the fact that i am lazy.i am not.i am on food stamps and medicaid because we lost our home in was either pay the mortgage and not have food, medical,electric and water.or not pay the mortgage and keep those other important necessities.i have been poor and not poor but never rich or extremely wealthy.i had very little saved.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the reply George,

I did not say you were lazy. There is a process problem though. As far as health, that's by the Grace of God. No one knows what tomorrow will bring there. Everyone has something that goes wrong, as we age. Everyone. Look at Michael. That's why we all need to plan ahead, or "save for a rainy day", as is often said.

From the process perspective, where you are may in fact be difficult to change, but not impossible. Everyone can contribute something, something that can be converted into income of some sort. Only you can answer that.

Long ago, adjustments should have been made by you and your wife, to allow for failing health at least, along with retirement. The house should have been paid-off and owned free-and-clear. You have to build that. That's pre-planning. They sell insurance for that. Banks hold savings for that. Self sufficiency may seem elusive to many, but as my mother always used to say, "If you want it, you have to work for it". She and my father used to also ask: "What did you do with the money I gave you (or you had)? Show me!" I won't judge your personal situation any further than that. That unfortunately is what you should have done long ago.
A lack of planning on anyone's part does not mean that the consequences should be born by others. There are reasonable safety-nets in place already and it sounds like you're already using most of them. I am not the guilty one here.

Now, having said all of that, where do you go from here? How about your daughter?


Life Member

harlequingr said...


my wife left me with 3 kids in 2007,a day after fathers debilitating arthritis,which i have had for 11 years now,spooked her.she just could not handle the "in sickness and in health" or the "forsaking all others" clause i guess.

we had money 2008 lost it all in the market.the rest was gone by 2010.we planned for retirement and a future but when she left she also took a huge chunk of money.back then at 53(in 2007) i had to function as a single dad,still am.not so bad since i was a very active and devoted father to my children so taking care of them was not hard.that is another reason she booked.they were always my world.i always put them before her.she became jealous because she was no longer the center of daughter and son are grown but still have my 14 year old.she needs caring and attention because she has crohn's disease.

there is no safety net.i can't walk well and can't grasp things because of my i can't work in any 62 they don't want me.i am a work related liability because of my we are living off of very little money.i will never have what i had as far as would take me 25 years to get back there.

i did not say that you are the guilty one but given the circumstances i had no choice.i had to do what i had to do to keep food and medical if i lose medicaid and food stamps i don't have the money to pay for those daughter and i need medical and i get it through ssi,she get it through child services.

.45ACP+P said...

They just never said which people.
You and I were not on the list of "THE PEOPLE".

Will said...

George Monaco:

"education, healthcare, the homeless problem, womens rights, minority rights, etc"

When fedgov and the states got involved in all of these, that was when things went bad, here in the US. You can trace most of our current problems to this. This is where Progressivism and Socialism get started. Their foot in the door.

harlequingr said...


ok, so we should get rid of education,healthcare,womens rights,minority rights, i guess you don't have any family members that go to school,need healthcare,are women,are degraded, poor or just simple exposed to people like don't care about homelessness or minority rights but you care about the 2A which is in the bill of rights of our constitution.i guess since you are shooting your mouth off you do believe in the 1A rights also.but all others could suck and go in a way you are for segregation,women being enslaved,against abortion,against education and since you are racist and a bigot like trump you are against do realize, that is if you read,that at this very moment mitt romney and the other republican party members are gathering a petition to remove trump.that's right(pun).their own party does not want him to run/win.they are thinking of floating and independent to take his place.guess you didn't know this.well i do.

are you out of your mind? see,this is what i mean and why the anti gunners think the pro gunners are ignorant and uneducated and only have guns to kill people.what you said just proves it.

and people like you are spooked by the word socialism but what you are saying is facist,communist and dictator-like.

Anonymous said...

George, I will finish our conversation with this:

Your getting sick is not your fault. Everything else IS.

When a "dying man" finds himself reaching to government, he can't be saved.


Life Member

harlequingr said...

you are all f--ked up!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yeah George, As if I couldn't see that coming!

Best of luck to you. And oh yeah, if you really care about your daughter, I'd recommend finding a set of "God Parents" for her that will coach, council and advise her so that she becomes a survivor.

Life Member

harlequingr said...

you know nothing about me or my family.if you are a psychologist i'd suggest you re-think your ability to counsel people.if not then don't talk.

it's people like you who think you have all the answers for what ails america.if you do then stop talking and do something about it.and by the way,you like everyone else and candidates alike,only look at one issue.america is more than that.everyone wants for themselves without looking at the big picture.that is why we polarize each other and the is not about who wins or what is about what is best for america and the bigger picture.the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

it doesn't matter who gets into office,they all suck.not one will do what the people of this country need.they are all greedy and self centered and just want the big prize-to live in the big white house. bernie sanders is the closest we will get to any semblance of sanity.maybe he is not the best but with the dictator(trump) and his close 2nd(cruz) and hillary(only for women's rights-again a one issue candidate)the only 2 are sanders and be honest rubio is a really intelligent man who is young and has a vision.maybe i don't agree with everything he says(or what bernie says) but he is way better then trump,cruz and clinton.

Anonymous said...

"bernie sanders is the closest we will get to any semblance of sanity."?

At least I DO agree with what Bernie is saying at the end of his latest campaign ad; "Dats cray-zay!"

And to think that this whole thread started because someone was rationalizing why they should get something for nothing. Go figure!

Life Member

harlequingr said...

oh yeah, i forgot to add one more republican who is anti gun and anti 2A.

the man all you single issue voters love and are going to vote for: Donald Trump.

that is right out of his mouth he states that he supports the assault weapons ban.

back in 2008 when he supported hillary clinton(you read that right)to the tune of at least $100,000,he did not understand why anybody need a gun.he stated then that he hated those things.

here is the link and how much he loved the clintons:

so start to open your eyes and ears before it is too late.

Anonymous said...

Dear "Grasshopper",

This may interest you:


Mr. "Ant"

harlequingr said...

Hi Ant,

thank you.

my daughter filed over a month ago and still no refund.they are always slow to pay but quick to take.and the gov't cries??? they talk about people saving money and building up for can we if the gov't is a poor example of saving/spending? they just keep printing money and spending it.i wish we could do the same.


Anonymous said...

Dear Grasshopper,

It's actually quite easy. Ignore what the government does.

Just get up every morning, whether you feel like it or not; go to work and earn your money. Then, spend some, save some and share some. Repeat.


Mr. Ant