Friday, February 05, 2010

Good Blogpost on ARs...

...from Frank James, another good friend who I did not see at SHOT! Sorry, Frank:
The big craze presently is the rush to "gas piston" guns versus Gene Stoner's Direct-Gas-Impingement system. Of course, the argument goes the gas piston guns are more reliable, easier to clean and better if you are soldier stationed in the 'sand box'.
A problem, however, is the fact that few in the civilian, or even the law enforcement market, are using these guns in the same manner and means as a soldier in the sand box. Civilian guns as a general rule are NOT select-fire and thereby few of them experience the heat or wear factors a counter-part military gun would in a routine day. In fact, in comparison to military use rifles, the civilian, or even its average law enforcement, equivalent enjoys a life of enforced idleness.
Civilian shooters who want the same exact features on their rifles as the military version are, in my view, living a little too deep in their fantasy world...
Read the whole thing. I agree with Frank, and you've heard me say it on the podcast.

While I was scrolling around, I hit my daily read on The Firearm Blog and discovered speedloaders for the .500 S&W. As a .500 owner, I instantly saw something I need to have. For all you Taurus Judge fans, and you know who you are, they offer Judge .410 speedloaders as well. The company, 3D, Inc., specializes in Harley parts, but hey, machining aluminum is machining aluminum. I'm going to get a couple for the .500 and a couple for the .44 Maggie. Should make John Ross darn happy!


Anonymous said...

I read the whole blog by Frank James and the attached blogger comments and I must say that it was interesting commentary on the DGI vs. "piston" AR guns. So were your "tags" Michael. I respect you both.
I fall off the mutual admiration bandwagon at the "fantasy" comment however, especially from a guy that dresses up like a Cowboy, or a Gangster! Or from a guy that continually trots out stuff that a rational wife would ask: "Do you REALLY need that?"
This discussion reminds me of the bunch I hang with. We call ourselves "Knappers" and "Cappers". (Yeah, we dress up like frontiersmen.) The "knappers" can't understand why us "cappers" would even want to shoot a gun with a percussion cap when a flintlock works just fine. "Hell, "flinters" won the Revolutionary War!" they say.
It also reminds me of Sam Colt's refusal to accept cartridge guns over cap and ball pistols. He lamented that certainly, there couldn't be any pistoleros that would trust a cartidge that was loaded by someone else when they could actually load the powder, ball and cap into their own pistols. After all, cap and ball was good enough.
I love my 1967 Chevelle Super Sport a lot too, but that new 2011 Mustang GT is just sooooo much better. Oh, but I'm living too deep in my own fantasy.
Get with it! This IS where we live. That is until things get serious. Then, we want the best available, if we're going to plop our money down.
Life Member
P. S.: As one of Frank's bloggers wrote, I don't get the "accuracy" comment he made either, regarding the new piston guns. As an engineer, I'll wait for the data.

Anonymous said...

you missed a reason why pistons are desirable, running a can

anyone who has run a suppressor on an AR15 for say 100 rounds knows that the thing creates 10X the dirt and carbonization that running it without one does..the pistons help immensely

it is the reason I retrofitted one of mine

Anonymous said...

sorry but I too read Mr. James posts, and 3K rounds in a year is just about what I run through because I play the 3 gun game

fantasy???? give me a break, because somebody wants to try a new platform/technology and they are serious about their hobby, i.e. collecting different black rifles

I don't think you old walnut and blued steel guys are really in touch with the younger generation of shooters...asking why somebody would want one of these is akin to asking why you old guys would ever want more than one revolver...sheesh, fantasy?? how sanctimonious..

egnash said...

I have both gas and piston ARs. Is one better than the other? For my uses I really don't think so.

But I have both because I WANT both. And I have an AR 223 pistol! Talk about the height of ridiculous!!! But it sure is fun and Lovely Bride has fun with it, also...

So there...

Anonymous said...

I'll agree that the "to deep in your Fantasy" comment was uncalled for, But jeez some of you are acting as if MB and Frank James are a couple of Luddites claiming the wheel is a work of Satan.
And I hope all you brave critics notice that I actually sign my name to MY post.
Tom Bogan

Dave S. said...

Aw, c'mon - the only gun owners who don't have a dose of Walter Mitty in them are the hunters who use guns purely as tools.

If you're buying an AR, you hear the distant pocketa-pocketa-pocketa of Cuban paratroopers in Colorado. Admit it. Just a little.

Dave S. said...

There's a reason the AR and the AK are overwhelmingly the two most popular rifles in the world.

The AK is the better combat rifle. The AR is the better police rifle.

The author is right. For its primary purpose stateside, the AR doesn't need a piston. It's a retrograde step.

seeker_two said...

Just thinking....if you're in a situation where you need to speed-load your .500S&W Magnum, then that's a BAD situation...but I'm glad someone is making those speedloaders....

Michael Bane said...

Dave S,...LOL!!!!!!!!


Anonymous said...

I don't "get" the AR craze so I can't comment either way.

But, having shot and handled a Taurus Judge, I will say I don't see the need for speedloaders because I can't see the Judge as anything more than a gimmick. I thought the Judge, when it came out, would die a quick death. Man was my crystal ball wrong on that score!

Anonymous said...

I choose guns that are built to work like a lever action or a revolver and my AK will keep on ticking. I look at them as tools with admiration for their workmanship and function. I do consider what is getting used in the sand box because it is a harsh environment. Many vehicle safety improvements and requirements as well as performance enhancements were first proven at Daytona Raceway and other environments where car bodies and engines saw the harshest use and demands; those things improved our car industry. I for one am not a person who mother-hens my guns and therefore I know for myself that I want a gun that is forgiving if neglected. I also want a gun to function when the brown stuff hits the oscillator because I need it to save my butt! To say that most of our firearms will sit in a gun safe or closet and never see the dust of day is like saying, "hey all of you, you won't ever play soldier for real so use these guns, they are finicky but with tlc they will work for you just fine."

I want the best operating firearms that require the most minimal amount of care because if my wife has to shoot it and it needs to work, it better damn well work. I heard it again the other day that what separates men from boys is the price of their toys. Give me the best, most tried and true platforms and that is what I will buy. It is important for us all to know what is and isn't working in the sand box so when the bad stuff begins happening here, we will be our own militia and defend our own lands and our country.

If this is not true MB, then it's time to hang up Best Defense. If we are not to make ready with preps and know-how because we prepare for something that will never happen then we excite one another for no reason at all. I believe it is important that we all know what works and what doesn't, it is our lives on the line. That should be respected, not mocked by saying this gun is the best but you will never need it. That I find insulting.

Lou Giacona
(palmbay lou)

Unknown said...

Using Frank's own logic does that mean that Teflon-coated receivers, forward assists, brass deflectors, muzzle breaks, bayonet lugs, M4 profile barrels, heavy barrels, and anti-tilt magazine followers are all wasteful features desired by poseurs? Exactly how much reliability and functionality is "enough" when your own or your family's life is on the line? I'll take all the "unnecessary" advantages I can get. I certainly won't ever complain that a firearm is too reliable.

Revolver Rob said...

Those are some bad ass speed loaders, right there. If them boys can make some 8-shot versions for the Smith 627/327 guns, I will be thoroughly impressed and be first in line for a few.


Anonymous said...

Tom Bogan,
Please don't discredit those that sign their notes with "handles", such as I do. I have no idea who "Tom Brogan" is any more than you know who "Life Member" is. The fact that we're all politely giving our opinions on a topic worth discussing is what matters. Michael Bane shows a great amount of tolerance and accommodates our participation without registration and I think that this adds to the "experience" on this blog. Without that, there may not be the level of participation that there is. I doubt that there would be more "registered" bloggers. There would only be less of the unregistered, or none at all.
Michael, Thanks for listening to us and Tom, thanks for your honest comments.
Life Member

Frank W. James said...

Michael: Sorry to have missed you too. The kid was looking forward to saying "Hi!"

As for my comments on the gas piston AR rifles, I think many have missed the point of the post and that was, IT HAS NOT BEEN CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN THEY ARE IN FACT MORE RELIABLE OR AN IMPROVEMENT IN ANY WAY. (The military has withdrawn all the HK416s from service with Spec Ops boys due to unspecified problems which neither side wants to officially talk about on the record.)

And if the piston guns haven't been conclusively proven better then they are nothing more than yet another left handed monkey wrench, but people still buy left handed monkey wrenches for both real and perceived advantages.

Your Mileage May Vary and One size doesn't fit all...

All The Best,
Frank W. James

nj_larry said...

With all the "experts" making their pronouncements I sit back amused. More's in this about the dollar than the device.

My 2 cents worth, Patton wasn't a dummy. Garand baby !! And in a pinch I'll gladly take an M1 Carbine.

clark myers said...

I'd say "same exact" is meaningful by virtue of exact - there are many inherent differences - trigger group say and I have no need or desire for a turned down groove on the barrel so I can hang a grenade launcher I don't have.

Just the same I'd want my own AR to be as good as mil-spec or better - I have no need for a poorly staked carrier key or other and inferior deviation from mil-spec either.

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